To All,
Here is the list I'm going to bring to the NOVA open. I decided to drop the Legion of the Damned (Jawaballs was right) and get some more firepower. I also didn't want to walk my Dreadnought across the board anymore (because he was not making it) so I went with a drop pod. I also am "upgrading" to Chaplain Cassius - a few extra points for some nice features.
Chaplain Cassius - 125 points
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Rosarius; Bolt Pistol; Crozius Arcanum; Infernus; Combat Tactics; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Honour of the Chapter; Independent Character; Liturgies of Battle
Space Marine Librarian - 140 points
in Terminator Armour; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics; Independent Character; Psyker; Might of the Ancients; Null Zone, Psychic Hood; Force Weapon; Storm Shield
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 points
Techmarine Gunner - Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Servo Harness; Bolt Pistol; Thunderfire Cannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Blessing of the Omnissiah; Bolster Defenses; Combat Tactics; Independent Character; Servo Harness
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 points
Techmarine Gunner - Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Servo Harness; Bolt Pistol; Thunderfire Cannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Blessing of the Omnissiah; Bolster Defenses; Combat Tactics; Independent Character; Servo Harness
Thunderfire Cannon - 135 points
Techmarine Gunner - Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Servo Harness; Bolt
Pistol; Thunderfire Cannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Blessing of the Omnissiah; Bolster Defenses; Combat Tactics; Independent Character; Servo Harness
Drop Pod - Transport Capacity: 12 models; Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System
Terminator Assault Squad - 475 points
Lightning Claws (pair) (x3); Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x1);
And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Land Raider Crusader
Sergeant - Lightning Claws (pair) (x1); And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics
Land Raider Crusader - Transport Capacity: 16 models; Access Points: 3; Frag Assault Launchers; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Multi-Melta; 2x Hurricane Bolters; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Assault Vehicle; Power of the Machine Spirit
Tactical Squad - 235 points
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Meltagun; Multi-Melta; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat
Sergeant - Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist (x1); And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics
Rhino - Transport Capacity: 10 model: Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Repair
Tactical Squad - 215 points
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter(x7); Flamer; Lascannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics;
Sergeant - Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics
Rhino - Transport Capacity: 10 models; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Repair
Tactical Squad - 165points
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol (x4); Bolter(x4); And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback
Sergeant - Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Bolter;And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics
Razorback - Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Lascannon
Ironclad Dreadnought - 185 points
Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Ironclad Assault Launchers; Dreadnought CCW; Meltagun; Seismic Hammer; Storm Bolter; Move ThroughCover; Drop Pod
Drop Pod - Transport Capacity: 12 models; Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System
Scout Squad - 125 points
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Scout Armour; Camo Cloaks; Bolt Pistol (x4); Sniper Rifle (x3); Missile Launcher; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Scouts
Sergeant - Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Scout Armour; Camo Cloaks; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist (x1); And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Scouts
The Stout Smurf
What are your goals for the scout squad. They seem like a tack on point filler from my view. Now this could be untrue, but it seems like you already have more than enough scoring with 25 tactical marines.
ReplyDeleteYou could easily drop them for 2 MM speeders which would add some speed and some more anti tank to the list. That would cost you 120pts. Most people run speeders with MM/HF for 70pts each, but with 3 thunderfire cannons you probably dont need the extra anti horde.
In fact perhaps dropping 1 thunderfire cannon for a 3rd speeder might be beneficial... will certainly save you the anger of actually building the extra cannon... they are a pain. And would net you some points to give the Ironclad 2 hunter killer missiles which really boosts its versatility.
By the way this is sean... I play the Salamander Drop pod army that was at Colonial and Templecon.
Agreed, the 3rd thunderfire is too much and costing potential anti tank. Cassius is awesome!
ReplyDeletePsybilliah,
ReplyDeleteI disagree, I won the Colonial using 3 Thunderfire cannons!!
Ask Stout Smurf & Jawaballs, they were there! (You too I think!)
-Dameon
BTW side note, why do people hate on the TFC?
ReplyDeleteTruth, however, I think he needs the anti tank of the preds (ac/lc). Your list had malta bikers and good suppressive fire. I don't think he is set up to move to so much anti horde.
ReplyDeleteSmurf, what makes you want to use 3 tfc's?
I agree people sleep on the tfc, I love the one I use.
To be completely honest, I don't know if in actuality 3 Thunderfire Cannons are good or not...but I have to admit it would be intimidating.
ReplyDelete@Psybilliah,
ReplyDeleteWell that makes sense! He has multiple Multi-Melta & some lascannon love but the list is a bit light on Anti tank..
I really like the list a lot Jim! Very different, I think it will look great on the table top.
ReplyDeleteWith some practice, I think this list will do fairly well.
@sevvs,
ReplyDeleteThe 3 TFC's put out an incredible amount of firepower. The problem is just that you have to make up for the anti tank in your elite and fast slots since all 3 of your heavies are gone.
@ted,
Dameon proved the 3 TFC's work amazing, but he had bikes and dakka dreads to back them up. I worry that the TFC's conflict with the armoured force that Jim has going here. Plus there isnt much to take advantage of the bolster defenses.
@Jim,
Curious what brought about the thoughts on switching the preds to thunderfires? even AC/HB dreads give you a bit more Anti Tank/suppression punch
To All,
ReplyDeleteThe switch comes as result of being at the Colonial GT which Dameon Green won with CODEX MARINES.
Doing a little bit of research and looking at the results of the past couple of years GT results you find very few guys with CODEX marines at the top tables, let alone winning them.
I'm going to write a post this week on the changes to my list and how Mr. Green influenced the changes.
Ted: I'm hoping to get a ton of practice in to be ready for the NOVA Open. I'm not delusional and don't think I'll be at the top tables. Based on their format I'm hoping to go 4-0 on day two when they re-seed and run mini tournaments.
ReplyDeleteAlso - your conversion work is SICK!! I want to come down to NJ and spend a weekend learning how to use "green stuff."
Check out Ted's blog with excellent pics of his work: http://littlbitz.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteThis list looks to be purely anti-horde. There's just not enough to stun or take out mech armies. I recommend dropping the TFC in drop pod, the scouts and Cassius in favor of more anti-mech; some tooled up land speeders perhaps.
ReplyDeleteNever forget what Space Marines do best... Shock Attack. If you allow Space Marines to get into a ranged firefight, they'll loose.
Jim's list is the result of taking what he liked, and what worked (Dameon's cannons) and seeing if we could get the best of both. He liked his Termies in crusader, so they were staying. He also liked his tacticals with transports.
ReplyDeleteSomeone asked why the scouts? Well, in Nova format, you need lots of troops. With those extra points left over, there was not enough points to add another useful tactical squad, so outflanking scouts coming into the game late, punching tanks and/or shooting a missile makes sense. Scouts are greatly under rated in 40k.
@The Stout Smurf,
ReplyDeleteHow about this, drops on TFC and the Chaplin for additional punch, adds a couple missile launchers (sturnguard) with plasma backup for anti-termy work. Adds to the scout squad and upgrades sgr for Tellion. He gives the WHOLE SQUAD Stealth, and allows you to pick out HQ's etc for assasination..
2000 Pts - Space Marines Roster
Total Roster Cost: 1999
HQ: Space Marine Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
1 Space Marine Librarian, 0 pts
1 ...in Terminator Armour, 125 pts
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (6#, 460 pts)
4 Terminator Assault Squad, 160 pts = 4 * 40
1 Sergeant, 40 pts
1 Land Raider Crusader, 260 pts = (base cost 250 + Multi-Melta 10)
Elite: Sternguard Veteran Squad (6#, 220 pts)
4 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 120 pts = 4 * 25 (base cost 25) + Combi-Plasmagun x2 10 + Missile Launcher x2 10
1 Sergeant, 25 pts
1 Razorback, 75 pts = (base cost 40 + Twin Linked Lascannon 35)
Elite: Ironclad Dreadnought (2#, 170 pts)
1 Ironclad Dreadnought, 135 pts
1 Drop Pod, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 235 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 51
1 Sergeant, 48 pts = (base cost 23) + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 215 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 157 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Lascannon 10 + Sergeant 26
1 Sergeant, 23 pts
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 165 pts)
4 Tactical Squad, 67 pts = 4 * 16 (base cost 16) + Sergeant 26
1 Sergeant, 23 pts
1 Razorback, 75 pts = (base cost 40 + Twin Linked Lascannon 35)
Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon (1#, 100 pts)
1 Thunderfire Cannon, 100 pts
1 Techmarine Gunner, 0 pts
Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon (2#, 135 pts)
1 Thunderfire Cannon, 100 pts
1 Techmarine Gunner, 0 pts
1 Drop Pod, 35 pts
Troops: Scout Squad (8#, 174 pts)
7 Scout Squad, 174 pts = 7 * 13 (base cost 13) + Missile Launcher 10 + Sergeant Telion 50
Validation Report:
d-1. Formatting: Competition Output; c-1. File Version: 1.20 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission; 1. Chapter: Codex Chapter
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules
Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Elite: 3 (0 - 3)
Troops: 4 (2 - 6)
Fast: 0 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 2 (0 - 3)
The chaplain makes the terminators fearless which they need - otherwise, if they lose one figure they need to check.
ReplyDeleteJim,
ReplyDeleteWith the termies. Just a thought. They are in the LR anyways, so they wont be getting shot at until after they get out. At which point they should be charging. The fearless is iffy once they are in CC as you cannot choose to break off and charge again. Might not be as important as it looks on paper.
@The Stout Smurf,
ReplyDeleteDrop me an email(Jawaballs has it), I would love to chat tactics / ideas..
Dameon
Psybilliah: I hadn't thought of it that way (newbie) and i will consider/playtest that.
ReplyDeleteMr. Green: Sweet - list and tactics advice from a top tier tournament player - I'm in!!
I like that revised list a lot.
ReplyDeleteYou can't discount the power of rerolling hits on the charge. Chaplain is good.
ReplyDeleteI agree chaplain is well worth it for terminators. It makes them highly reliable. Dont need to worry about pinning if the landraider gets blown... i mean IG still bring psyker squads sometimes to make you run, and also fear the darkness.... dont want your elite combat squad counting on rolling a 7-8 or fleeing.
ReplyDeleteAnd as Chris said rerolling hits is huge.
And while Ill cede to Chris's actual experience with NOva, that more troops is better, Ill argue that in theory it shoudlnt matter. Unless youre bent on getting the highest seed in each pairing set up you dont need any more troops that you would usually use to win a game. As long as you have more objectives than the other guy you win, but by not winning big you end up playing better players so thats "bad" but its ok as long as you feel your list has the tools it needs.
My personal feeling is that space marine troops dont bring much to the table in terms of effectiveness. So thats why I argue that if he alread has 25 marines... the scouts are ultimately superfluous. And could be better served by other killy units like speeders and such.
And Ill agree with MR. Green that the thunderfire cannon is great. Ive been using at least 1 since December to great result. Used 2 in a 1500pt event a few weeks ago and they did great things. But while he did win with 3, I wonder in most lists if 2 isnt enough, where as his list was more designed around them as a concept this one isnt so much so while 2 compliments this list nicely 3 may be too many.
Sean: I can see your point about the third being too much in a "non-specialized" list. Two of the Thunderfires are replacing The Legion of the Damned which had some tank killing abilities and a template for anti-troop. The two Thunderfires are actually cheaper, points-wise, than the 5-man LotD squad.
ReplyDeleteIn my short experience my Pred, which had most of my firepower, was too easily going down with one shot by the enemy. I like the idea of a being able to counter my opponent's dice with the 3+ cover save you get with the Thunderfires.
When I play Nova I want to score every point, every game, to as you point out Sean, to get the higher seed and lower opponent. In the greater scheme the difference is small. But I found that Guard lists tend to score a lot of points, and I don't match up well vs them. So If I am 4-0 and if having claimed 4 objectives in each of my 4 games means the difference between playing a guard player or an army I match up better against in game 5, than I am happy I had enough troops to do it. Did I make any sense at all?
ReplyDeleteSo yes, in Nova I suggest 4+ troops choices. That just means you have to get the most bang for your buck out of your killy stuff!
Or you can just throw caution to the wind and load up on heavy killy with minimal troops and just hope you table every one.
Yeah Jim im never impressed with my Predator when I bring it out of the deep dark box Ive stuffed it into. But maybe test out a pair of lone speeders. They add anti tank shooting, and Chris will attest he hates them with a passion, when they are pointed at his landraiders. And also are capable of the flip side of scoring which is contesting. And add some cheap speed to Space Marine lists.
ReplyDeleteThat makes sense Chris. I agree guard are a bad matchup, though ill be painting up some new tricks to try on them with my extra 150pts for the grim open. My Dread themed army sucks up a lot of the points, so Im just used to having a minimum of troops. I think my 2000pt army for Grim is still just going to have 5 scouts and 5 marines.
So Do you have a totally different BA list for these NOVA style events? That would annoy me. Though assault marines are a more useful troop than tactical squads, and their are more force multipliers in the BA codex.
And if shit goes bad at Grim I may just get some black and red paint ready and go full 30 man death company and 5 death dreads for no scoring power and maximum killy come august.