To all,
At TempleCon my Librarian had the Psychic Powers the Avenger and Null Zone. Null Zone worked great while the Avenger was OK, but not as devastating as I imagined it to be. For The Colonial I'm switching from The Avenger to The Gate of Infinity. I have two questions about the power:
1) When traveling by himself does the Librarian scatter when "coming out of the gate/warp."
and of course the big one:
2) Can the Librarian (and the unit he is with) use the Gate of Infinity to teleport out of combat?
The Rule:
"This power is used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. The Librarian, and any unit he is with, are removed from the tabletop and immediatly placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules. If the Librarian travels alone, there is a chance something will go wrong.If the deep strike attempt scatters and a double is rolled, one member of the unit, chosen by the controlling player, is claimed by the Warp and removed as a casualty (the survivors scatter normally)."
Page 57 of the Space Marine Codex
Need to know before the Colonial on the 8th.
The Stout Smurf
I think there was a pretty big discussion on Dakka and on Jawaballs blog. I believe the consensus was that it cannot (something about violating the removal from combat rules).
ReplyDeleteHere is the link.
http://warhammer40kbloodangels.blogspot.com/2011/03/rules-discussion-gate-of-infinity-and.html
1) the librarian does always scatter, weather he is travaling by himself or with his homies.
ReplyDelete2) i beleive that he can infact leave combat. The majority of people who say he cant are in the school that he is moving away from combat during the movement phase, and that it does not explicitly say that you can use it. The necron war gear "veil of darkness" specificly says when you can and can not use it, in combat yes and any point in the movement phase before the lord ahs moved. this is a peice of war gear that has no other rules that govern its use. Gaate of Infinity is a phchic power and has the same built in limitation on when you can use it. the only time you can not use a phychic power whilist locked in combat is if it is a shooting attack. as for the rest of the "he's leaving combat by moving" or "its 'phychic movement'" the second line of the powere reads "The Librarian, and any unit he is with, are removed from the tabletop and immediatly placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules." So removed from the tabletop is the same as moving? i dont belive so. and further more after they are removed from the tabletop they would no longer be locked in combat.
Well thats my argument for GoI. i belive that it is better than the nay sayers that you cant do it. hope this helps.
James
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ReplyDeleteI agree with BC James
ReplyDelete1) the libby always scatters
2) I feel that you can not gate out of combat because of the the end result of gate which is deep strike rules. and deep strike counts as moving and you can not move in CC except for pile in.
I agree with BCJ that GoI should work in CC, as the "Deepstrike" part of the psychic power is done AFTER the removed from the table part so should not be affected. Also, there is no restriction in the power itself, and if there is no restriction in the power then I don't see there being one, remeber the codex over rules the rulebook, and given the Veil of Darkness precident, I think any restrictions need to be clearly written in the codex entry. The best bet would be to ask the tourney organizer before you start your first game, get it out of the way so precious game time isn't wasted arguing with your opponent. Good luck, and can't wait to here how it goes!!
ReplyDeleteAs much as I hate to admit that James is right about any thing, I have to admit, I think he is right. The simple point that there is no reason why the libby can't cast the power, and that casting the power results in models being removed from play before any thing else answers it. Now, I certainly respect both sides of the discussion. Some non official FAQs say it cannot be used during combat but they don't address the logical steps of using the power.
ReplyDelete1. Roll to use power.
2. If successful, remove models from play.
3. Deep Strike the models... and so forth.
I was inclined to agree with the Yakface who wrote the INAT FAQ, but to me this is pretty clear.
I would still ask for a ruling from the TO before playing a guy who was using it though, just for tournament continuity sake.
I like the arguments I'm getting here for my pre-tournament pitch to the TO about GoI. I'm going to send an email this week and get back to you guys.
ReplyDeleteThis was argued out at length pretty much everywhere. Will be interesting how your TO will rule. Overall the power has to be cast at the beginning of the movement phase, and is considered movement. Most argue that based o close combat locking units in place, it cannot be done (moving out of cc).
ReplyDeletethe only problem with the logic of " and is considered movement" is that the power does not count as movement. the resulting deepstrike the unit counts as moved, but not movement, hence counts as. counting as does not mean that the said item did or didnt use. hence relentless units count as stationary, does this mead they dont take dangerous terrain test? that is the logic of "count as".
ReplyDeletethats my opion anyway.
okay I am swayed gate all over the place. I like the logic and agree counts as is not the same as. in fact look to some of the tau war gear too like the multi tracker on the devil fish which allows the tank to fire its weapons counting as a fast vehicle but it may not move as a fast vehicle as its a counts as fast. but its not a fast. but fires as a fast. and around and around and around and around we go... where we stop no one knows. he he he he......
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I see both sides of the argument. It would definately suck to be the Ultramarine player who takes this power only to find out that the TO says it can't be used in such a way. Personally, I'd allow it if I was playing a friendly game and would bow to whatever judgement the TO has in any kind of offical setting.
ReplyDeleteJim I run a Avanger/Gate Librarian myself...its my favorite combo. Ive never tried to gate out of combat due to I believe it to be illegal since you cannot move in combat (If you cant move in or out of combat and gateing is moving why can you use it?)
ReplyDeleteIts still a lethal combo...and its basically taking the model/s off the table and deepstriking them 24" away...same rules...its useful. Null zone is iffy these days since it only works in YOUR turn